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Post by tykemania on Nov 6, 2023 12:48:46 GMT
There are rumours that Buttler may be stood down from the ODI captaincy if England do not qualify for the Champions Trophy, with Brook under consideration as the "long term solution" for the next four year cycle. Led me to thinking what a refreshed ODI side might look like. Thoughts?
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Post by newby on Nov 6, 2023 16:18:22 GMT
Well I hope it's made up of Cricketers who are hungry for success and not players who have seen it, done it, got the t-shirt and know where all the best golf courses are.
A mix of T20 specialists and longer form players I suppose, we don't have much recent data unfortunately.
Brook, Duckett, Crawley, Dawson spring to mind. Others need some thought.
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Post by tykemania on Nov 6, 2023 17:18:45 GMT
I'm not sure myself whether it would be the best thing for Harry to take a leadership role, especially one that will basically mean he is playing all three formats consistently for England, but on the other hand would be delighted for him. I had not realised until I looked today quite how old the ODI team has become, and it makes sense to use the format to blood some newer talent.
In terms of a team/squad I came up with the following, which retains only Rashid of the over 30s brigade:
Crawley
Salt
Duckett
Brook
Smith/Rew
Jacks
Dawson/S Curran
Carse
Rashid/Ahmed
Archer
Atkinson
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Post by karma on Nov 6, 2023 17:34:06 GMT
That seems a pretty good mix tykemania. Not sure about Rashid though, he's knocking on a bit and has shoulder problems I think.
What about looking a little nearer to home? I could see Hill pushing for consideration , perhaps even Bean . Of course neither really play white-ball but
4 years is a long time ahead.
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Post by newby on Nov 6, 2023 17:51:03 GMT
I think I'd take the young Yorkshire lads out of the equation for a few years yet.
Crawley was given the leadership in the games against Ireland and I would imagine it would be between him and Pope, who I think was injured, when it comes to Captaincy.
Salt seems to be with the England team, he has certainly been caught on camera several times in the Dugout. He may well be out there caddying for Buttler.
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Post by davemorton on Nov 6, 2023 19:59:08 GMT
We saw young Tom Prest at York, and it would be hard to imagine anyone batting much better than that. There must be some young spinners around, but I haven't seen any. You would have thought Curran nailed on next generation, but he has been awful. I believe the pace attack should be, near enough, the Test attack, whatever that happens to be, as we have seen with the Indian bowlers. In fact, with all the teams, except England.
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Post by donnylad on Nov 7, 2023 7:37:05 GMT
I would worry about the pace attack in the projected team. Archer - I suspect - is a busted flush. Atkinson - perhaps when the coaches have finished trying to drag another 5 kph out of his action he will be limping from match to match like Wood does now.
That said ..... I cannot really offer any alternatives.
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Post by tykemania on Nov 7, 2023 9:00:37 GMT
I think I'd see Hill as more of a Test option than ODI personally - he looks like someone who will have a big year in one of the next couple and kick on a la Brook - but, whilst his seamers could be a decent fourth seam option in Tests, international white ball players might back themselves to take him apart. The young lad at Surrey (Lawes?) is another in this boat.
Bowling wise, we do tend to wreck anyone with a bit of pace. Archer, Mahmood, Fisher (sadly), Overton etc all have awful injury records. Hence I would not bother trying to take Atkinson from "fast enough to keep them honest" to "fast enough to scare people" - he's a good enough prospect as is.
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Post by newby on Nov 7, 2023 9:14:56 GMT
Josh Tongue is a bowler who has been mentioned.
I did read that the ODI side going to the West Indies would exclude all the World Cup players. More muddled thinking by England if they don't at least include Brook, Atkinson and Carse and probably Sam Curran if he's back in the frame of mind to play.
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Post by slowleftarmer on Nov 7, 2023 14:33:38 GMT
Turner at Hampshire is one they clearly like although he is like others when it comes to fitness and injuries
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Post by newby on Nov 8, 2023 19:33:14 GMT
Perhaps we will be allowed a larger squad at the next 50 over World event.
We can take a small plane load of bowlers, Archer, Atkinson, Fisher, Tongue, Stone, Mahmood, Carse, Topley, Turner, plus some I can't remember and a few others who may briefly flower in the next two years, in the hope of getting a game each out of them.
Maybe instead of Stokes the management will be trying to coax David Willey out of International retirement in 2025.
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Post by karma on Nov 9, 2023 17:54:36 GMT
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Butler should not have a place in the new look team .To remain would stifle change , to wait to be sacked shows lack of understanding and perception of his and team's World Cup. Logic says he should go before he's sacked. For once , make the right decision
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Post by tbsteve on Nov 10, 2023 2:50:07 GMT
I have to agree with you Karma - though I'd still want him as skipper in the T20. Would three different captains work?
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Post by newby on Nov 10, 2023 8:44:46 GMT
I'm sure I read somewhere before the WC that Buttler would be ditching 50 overs cricket once it was over. He now says he wants to stay so I either imagined it, or he has been offered so much money in his new contract that he has changed his plans.
In my view he can still fit in but England need to go back to what they are good at with the explosive starts, and that would suit him opening the batting.
Having Stokes around muddies the water in terms of captaincy. If Stokes has been offered untold riches to keep playing 50 overs cricket too then that's a real problem in my view.
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Post by karma on Nov 11, 2023 16:06:48 GMT
Agree 100%,newby. Today's win over Pakistan doesn't change anything or shouldn't .
We arrived to the party undercooked, started our preparation and practice when we got to India.
Keep Butler away from captaining anything even one of those boats on the lake in Peasholme Park. Agree, IF he plays white-ball for England he opens, told to play bazball so he doesn't have time to overthink things.
Persuade Willey to change his mind, give him a central contract and the captaincy he's led by example these last four games. Are we sure he's not Yorkshire born?
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